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	<title>Comments on: Pogo was right, the enemy is  us</title>
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	<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/</link>
	<description>Thoughtful commentary on the ideas, events, people and policies shaping our world</description>
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		<title>By: T Rex</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-50710</link>
		<dc:creator>T Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Oct 2006 16:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-50710</guid>
		<description>Checking to see if I got the quote right in my haiku this morning, I found this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Checking to see if I got the quote right in my haiku this morning, I found this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: S.W.  Anderson</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48634</link>
		<dc:creator>S.W.  Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 05:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48634</guid>
		<description>Jeff wrote:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;I, obviously, am not cut out to be a big-business executive, since I have trouble seeing how I could ever be 700 or 800 times as &#039;valuable&#039; as the average worker on my production line.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Ah, but that qualifies you splendidly, IMO, to be a corporate &lt;i&gt;trustee&lt;/i&gt;. Which is nice work for the few who can get it Ã¢â‚¬â€ and who then proceed to do so little in return for so much.

Just once, I&#039;d like to see a savvy board of trustees at some major corporation bring in a half-dozen well-qualified CEO candidates and proceed to have those candidates bid for the job. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff wrote:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;I, obviously, am not cut out to be a big-business executive, since I have trouble seeing how I could ever be 700 or 800 times as &#8216;valuable&#8217; as the average worker on my production line.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Ah, but that qualifies you splendidly, IMO, to be a corporate <i>trustee</i>. Which is nice work for the few who can get it Ã¢â‚¬â€ and who then proceed to do so little in return for so much.</p>
<p>Just once, I&#8217;d like to see a savvy board of trustees at some major corporation bring in a half-dozen well-qualified CEO candidates and proceed to have those candidates bid for the job.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Shaumeyer</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48601</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Shaumeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 17:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48601</guid>
		<description>It could include those boondoggles flowing from the government that wastes tax monies when they could be put to good use that all consider valuable; however, at the moment I was writing that I was thinking about the exploitation of labor by management whose CEOs &quot;earn&quot; over 700 times the hourly wage of their workers (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20060627&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an example link&lt;/a&gt;).

I, obviously, am not cut out to be a big-business executive, since I have trouble seeing how I could ever be 700 or 800 times as &quot;valuable&quot; as the average worker on my production line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It could include those boondoggles flowing from the government that wastes tax monies when they could be put to good use that all consider valuable; however, at the moment I was writing that I was thinking about the exploitation of labor by management whose CEOs &#8220;earn&#8221; over 700 times the hourly wage of their workers (<a href="http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20060627" rel="nofollow">an example link</a>).</p>
<p>I, obviously, am not cut out to be a big-business executive, since I have trouble seeing how I could ever be 700 or 800 times as &#8220;valuable&#8221; as the average worker on my production line.</p>
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		<title>By: S.W.  Anderson</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48542</link>
		<dc:creator>S.W.  Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 03:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48542</guid>
		<description>All I can say about remaking American society to some individual or group&#039;s liking is that many have tried and, to my knowledge, none have really  succeeded. Working changes, sure, but remaking, no. Maybe that&#039;s what needs to be pointed out to those who see themselves as being on that kind of mission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say about remaking American society to some individual or group&#8217;s liking is that many have tried and, to my knowledge, none have really  succeeded. Working changes, sure, but remaking, no. Maybe that&#8217;s what needs to be pointed out to those who see themselves as being on that kind of mission.</p>
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		<title>By: rightsaidfred</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48539</link>
		<dc:creator>rightsaidfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 03:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48539</guid>
		<description>Jeff S. wrote:

&quot;...so that working people rediscover what it is to have their labor exploited.&quot;

Would this happen to be the exploitation of labor by the central government via taxes and fees to fund the various boondoggles that flow from there?

(I did like your post.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff S. wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;so that working people rediscover what it is to have their labor exploited.&#8221;</p>
<p>Would this happen to be the exploitation of labor by the central government via taxes and fees to fund the various boondoggles that flow from there?</p>
<p>(I did like your post.)</p>
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		<title>By: rightsaidfred</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48538</link>
		<dc:creator>rightsaidfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 03:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48538</guid>
		<description>S.W., ah,(burp), excuse me, I&#039;m swallowing some more radical right orthodoxy...

Your presentation sounds good, but those ideas are often seized by those with an agenda and twisted into criticisms/reasons to remake American society (to their liking).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>S.W., ah,(burp), excuse me, I&#8217;m swallowing some more radical right orthodoxy&#8230;</p>
<p>Your presentation sounds good, but those ideas are often seized by those with an agenda and twisted into criticisms/reasons to remake American society (to their liking).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Shaumeyer</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48527</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Shaumeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 01:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48527</guid>
		<description>Damn those presenters with statistics to back up their ideas!

I&#039;m ready usually to throw them all out, including the unions and the administrators and the rest of them, whoever they are.

What I want to keep is a commitment to free, universal education because we think it makes better Americans, and support and respect for those teachers who are intelligent and enthusiastic and can actually. For children to want to learn, the schools and the teachers need not more money but more respect from parents and politicians.

Now, where do you want to start? Unions once served a tremendously useful purpose that has been largely forgotten by both the management classes and the union leadership and rank and file. It&#039;s a shame, but perhaps we need to polish up the new Republican Golden Age so that working people rediscover what it is to have their labor exploited. My best guess is that liberal / conservative swings in governing the country serve this rejuvenating purpose, if they serve any purpose at all.

Straw men aside, I think the idea of universal eduation is very important, and I want to see it be universal, fair, and educational.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn those presenters with statistics to back up their ideas!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m ready usually to throw them all out, including the unions and the administrators and the rest of them, whoever they are.</p>
<p>What I want to keep is a commitment to free, universal education because we think it makes better Americans, and support and respect for those teachers who are intelligent and enthusiastic and can actually. For children to want to learn, the schools and the teachers need not more money but more respect from parents and politicians.</p>
<p>Now, where do you want to start? Unions once served a tremendously useful purpose that has been largely forgotten by both the management classes and the union leadership and rank and file. It&#8217;s a shame, but perhaps we need to polish up the new Republican Golden Age so that working people rediscover what it is to have their labor exploited. My best guess is that liberal / conservative swings in governing the country serve this rejuvenating purpose, if they serve any purpose at all.</p>
<p>Straw men aside, I think the idea of universal eduation is very important, and I want to see it be universal, fair, and educational.</p>
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		<title>By: S.W.  Anderson</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48489</link>
		<dc:creator>S.W.  Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 20:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48489</guid>
		<description>RSF wrote:

&quot;every presentation I sat through where the speaker was pushing some program of multiculturalism, political correctness, moral relativism, anti-American revisionism, global warming  . . . I felt they just added to the shift down the road to mediocrity. &quot;

The way you lump this all together for blanket dismissal as promoting nothing but mediocrity is revealing, RSF. It says you&#039;ve swallowed radical-right orthodoxy whole.

As you might have noticed, I&#039;m not one to promote  political correctness, moral relativism and anti-American revisionism. Still, I wonder how thoughtfully and carefully you came to that judgment. I suspect you pretty much rejected out of hand everything those presenters had to say.

I have no problem with having teachers from any and all ethnic, social, religious and economic backgrounds. What I want to see is teachers who are really good at what they do and really devoted to doing it well.

I have no problem with teaching the histories of Asia, Africa and the rest of the world. I just  don&#039;t want to see that done at the expense of teaching the history of Western Europe and North America well.

As for anti-American revisionism, I recognize that some things traditionally taught were not true as presented. Truth is important. I&#039;ve run into people who had no idea the founders restricted the vote to the landed gentry. Likewise, I&#039;ve come across people who had no idea slaves weren&#039;t originally enumerated in censuses as whole human beings. I&#039;ve also talked with people who thought it was A-OK for Americans and Europeans to take over Third World countries, and exploit people and resources, in the name of advancing and civilizing them.

Those notions strike me as more wrongheaded and even dangerous than mediocre.

As for global warming, denial and inertia aren&#039;t  helpful in preparing future generations to deal with another set of messes we&#039;ve bequeathed to them.



</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RSF wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;every presentation I sat through where the speaker was pushing some program of multiculturalism, political correctness, moral relativism, anti-American revisionism, global warming  . . . I felt they just added to the shift down the road to mediocrity. &#8221;</p>
<p>The way you lump this all together for blanket dismissal as promoting nothing but mediocrity is revealing, RSF. It says you&#8217;ve swallowed radical-right orthodoxy whole.</p>
<p>As you might have noticed, I&#8217;m not one to promote  political correctness, moral relativism and anti-American revisionism. Still, I wonder how thoughtfully and carefully you came to that judgment. I suspect you pretty much rejected out of hand everything those presenters had to say.</p>
<p>I have no problem with having teachers from any and all ethnic, social, religious and economic backgrounds. What I want to see is teachers who are really good at what they do and really devoted to doing it well.</p>
<p>I have no problem with teaching the histories of Asia, Africa and the rest of the world. I just  don&#8217;t want to see that done at the expense of teaching the history of Western Europe and North America well.</p>
<p>As for anti-American revisionism, I recognize that some things traditionally taught were not true as presented. Truth is important. I&#8217;ve run into people who had no idea the founders restricted the vote to the landed gentry. Likewise, I&#8217;ve come across people who had no idea slaves weren&#8217;t originally enumerated in censuses as whole human beings. I&#8217;ve also talked with people who thought it was A-OK for Americans and Europeans to take over Third World countries, and exploit people and resources, in the name of advancing and civilizing them.</p>
<p>Those notions strike me as more wrongheaded and even dangerous than mediocre.</p>
<p>As for global warming, denial and inertia aren&#8217;t  helpful in preparing future generations to deal with another set of messes we&#8217;ve bequeathed to them.</p>
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		<title>By: rightsaidfred</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48384</link>
		<dc:creator>rightsaidfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Oct 2006 10:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48384</guid>
		<description>&quot;You and jkelly seem to be laboring under the misperception that Ã¢â‚¬Å“the more liberal among usÃ¢â‚¬Â donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t care if their children, all children, get a good education. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s an absurd notion.&quot;

Pretty slick.  It reminds me of every presentation I sat through where the speaker was pushing some program of multiculturalism, political correctness, moral relativism, anti-American revisionism, global warming, etc. and they always couched it in terms of being better for our children, and they had some anecdote or statistics to back it up.  The presenters were earnest people, but I felt they just added to the shift down the road to mediocrity.  The latest one was a plan to hire teachers of an ethnic background to match the student&#039;s ethnicity, under the guise of giving the students role models.  Gag.

&quot;You also seem to take it as a given that unions somehow stand in the way of educating well. There are teachers and union people who can point to plenty of examples where the opposite is true.&quot;

I need to see those examples.  The biggest complaint I hear is that unions just help the bad teachers.  I&#039;m reminded of the quote from the head of the Oregon teacher&#039;s union, &quot;I&#039;ll put students first when they start paying union dues.&quot;

&quot;...I think mid-career ceilings are at least partly responsible for so many wanting to move to administration.&quot;  Money is only part of it.  There is also the &quot;workplace culture&quot;, recognition for doing a good job, positive feedback from students, job satisfaction, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You and jkelly seem to be laboring under the misperception that Ã¢â‚¬Å“the more liberal among usÃ¢â‚¬Â donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t care if their children, all children, get a good education. ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s an absurd notion.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pretty slick.  It reminds me of every presentation I sat through where the speaker was pushing some program of multiculturalism, political correctness, moral relativism, anti-American revisionism, global warming, etc. and they always couched it in terms of being better for our children, and they had some anecdote or statistics to back it up.  The presenters were earnest people, but I felt they just added to the shift down the road to mediocrity.  The latest one was a plan to hire teachers of an ethnic background to match the student&#8217;s ethnicity, under the guise of giving the students role models.  Gag.</p>
<p>&#8220;You also seem to take it as a given that unions somehow stand in the way of educating well. There are teachers and union people who can point to plenty of examples where the opposite is true.&#8221;</p>
<p>I need to see those examples.  The biggest complaint I hear is that unions just help the bad teachers.  I&#8217;m reminded of the quote from the head of the Oregon teacher&#8217;s union, &#8220;I&#8217;ll put students first when they start paying union dues.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;I think mid-career ceilings are at least partly responsible for so many wanting to move to administration.&#8221;  Money is only part of it.  There is also the &#8220;workplace culture&#8221;, recognition for doing a good job, positive feedback from students, job satisfaction, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: S.W.  Anderson</title>
		<link>http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/2006/09/26/pogo-was-right-the-enemy-is-us/comment-page-1/#comment-48292</link>
		<dc:creator>S.W.  Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 20:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wpblog.ohpinion.com/?p=1038#comment-48292</guid>
		<description>RSF wrote:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Public schools have their problems, but the more liberal among us are the one resisting change.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

You and jkelly seem to be laboring under the misperception that &quot;the more liberal among us&quot; don&#039;t care if their children, all children, get a good education. That&#039;s an absurd notion.

You also seem to take it as a given that unions somehow stand in the way of educating well. There are teachers and union people who can point to plenty of examples where the opposite is true.

From what I&#039;ve seen, there&#039;s often too many involved in administration at all levels of education, adding to expense and complicating rather than facilitating the core mission. Better lawmaking could go a long way toward fixing that problem. 

To make streamlining administration workable over time, however, it must be possible for teachers to  earn raises, bonuses and additional vacation time throughout their careers. I think mid-career ceilings are at least partly responsible for so many wanting to move to administration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RSF wrote:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Public schools have their problems, but the more liberal among us are the one resisting change.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>You and jkelly seem to be laboring under the misperception that &#8220;the more liberal among us&#8221; don&#8217;t care if their children, all children, get a good education. That&#8217;s an absurd notion.</p>
<p>You also seem to take it as a given that unions somehow stand in the way of educating well. There are teachers and union people who can point to plenty of examples where the opposite is true.</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen, there&#8217;s often too many involved in administration at all levels of education, adding to expense and complicating rather than facilitating the core mission. Better lawmaking could go a long way toward fixing that problem. </p>
<p>To make streamlining administration workable over time, however, it must be possible for teachers to  earn raises, bonuses and additional vacation time throughout their careers. I think mid-career ceilings are at least partly responsible for so many wanting to move to administration.</p>
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